Just got done watching the MCM Miata series

"Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs" (yowen) 07/12/2017 at 10:53 • Filed to: None

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Specifically, the one where they have a Supercharged one and a Turbocharged one. Fascinating stuff! I’ve always been on the fence about whether I’d one day want a Miata or not. I’m not terribly enamored with their styling, but Moog kind of hit the nail on the head for me: “I don’t particularly like the way they look, but it looks fantastic in motion” I’m paraphrasing here, but you get the point. I think he’s right! They looked fantastic as they were being scooted around a cone-track, they looked nimble and composed.

But again, I’ve never considered myself a future Miata owner, but this series did stir some feelings in my automotive heart. It seems like a ton of fun to have a car that seems easy to work on, handles well right out of the box and has a bolt on supercharger kit available that can be installed in a day, although I’d give myself probably 2 or 3 weekends, haha.

I’ve personally considered myself more likely to buy a German convertible or hardtop two-seater of some point, most likely some kind of Mercedes. But again, this series provides such a compelling counterpoint that just screams Miataaaaaah!

Now, what say you Oppo? Since the whole Miata thing has been beaten to death around here, I’m sure. I just feel special since I’ve had a personal revelation. What say you? Do you go for the SC or the Turbo? If you had to choose and motor-swaps and staying stock are NOT an option.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:01

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NA with either independent throttle bodies or a Renesis swap.

The NB and NC are too heavy for my tastes, and the ND is too expensive and too new so it’ll probably have a load of irritating little sensors that go wrong around 150k miles when I’d actually be buying one...

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:09

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For an NC I’d guess that a supercharger would be more pleasant due to the increased weight over an NA/NB, but my vote would be for a turbo NA.

All of that said, my real vote would be for a high strung N/A NA. As a Miata owner who once very much never saw myself becoming a Miata owner, I think having plenty of power throughout the rev range would kind of negate most of what makes a Miata special. I reject the notion that cars are fundamentally better just because they’re in the “slow car fast” vein of things, but at the very least I would want to keep the power high in the rev range in a Miata regardless of how much power I’m adding.

Textured Soy Protein > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:22

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I tilt more towards the fully-equipped side of the Miata spectrum. I drove a loaded 10th Anniversary Edition NB for 4 years because the NA was juuuust a little too cramped for me.

I love the ND Club/124 Abarth but the damn seats don’t recline enough for me. The NC is a couple hundred pounds heavier but I dig the power hardtop NC because it’s a negligible weight increase and the trunk stays the same size.

For me if I did it again I’d probably go for a turbo NB2. It’s still got the low beltline and open area behind the seats instead of the bulkhead and high beltline on the NC & ND but that little extra room inside compared to the NA and I prefer the mini-Jag XK looks. The NB2 weighs more than the NB1 but it’s got a reinforced body shell and other refinements. Slapping a turbo on it would not result in the modern low-RPM torque turbo powerband, it would be peaky and you’d have to rev it out, which I think best fits the character of the car.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:24

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I would not go the forced induction route in a Miata. Too many people face cooling issues. I would much more gladly spend that same money on the suspension and wheels/tires to add more grip. Currently I just have decent coilovers, a full exhaust, summer tires, and a front sway bar on mine. I use a second set of wheels with 100 TW tires on them for autox. However, I would love to cut my fenders, throw on some 15x11 wheels with 305 width hoosiers, put a nice big lexan spoiler on the back, racing seats and harnesses, as well as a roll bar. But then I wont be streeting the car much anymore!

Anyways, what has really kept me interested is just how good my car feels in comparison to much more expensive vehicles. Ive rented a Cayman and FRS and S2k that my car feels essentially identical to in terms of driving dynamics. The big thing is that Miatas can be whatever you want them to be. A nice summer time back road cruiser, casual autox and daily driver, or fully prepped race car. 

Khalbali > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:26

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I have an NC hardtop and find it the best for me personally, having also owned an NA previously. I’m a bigger guy though so don’t mind that it’s “heavy” compared to the others, I had ordered an ND and then cancelled and got my ‘08 instead. To answer your question I would go with the rear force turbo myself most likely, ease of install means you can just pull it for emissions etc, and it would provide more than enough power for me, any more and I’d want to start building the rest of the car up, clutch and internals etc. Plus turbos are fun!

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Textured Soy Protein 07/12/2017 at 11:30

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I’m having trouble figuring out exactly what an NB2 is, is it the latter years of the NB?

Textured Soy Protein > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:32

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NB1 = 1999-2000

NB2 = 2001-2005

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/12/2017 at 11:33

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ITB... This interests me. I read up on it a little, it seems like at that point it becomes something of a track-only car, drivability wise.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 07/12/2017 at 11:34

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That’s a pretty good endorsement given the cars you are comparing to! How would you place an MR2 in that lineup?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:36

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Nah I’ve known plenty of cars that are dailied with ITBs. It’s very common in the 106 scene, and I’ve seen quite a few MX-5s with them too.

There is a reason it’s not done as often as turbos. For the same price as a 180bhp ITB setup you could get a turbo for 230bhp (or more). Still, it’s the noise and responsiveness which makes me want ITBs. They’re brilliant things :)

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 07/12/2017 at 11:43

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Ironically biTURBO made the suggestion of ITB’s, that does seem awesome for a Miata!

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Khalbali 07/12/2017 at 11:45

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That’s interesting! I take it rear force means it’s one of those rear-mounted turbo’s? It’s not a pain to install with all the plumbing?

Chariotoflove > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:47

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That green with that leather in your pic is absolutely perfect for me.

I test drove an ND, and I can tell you that for me, the hype was right. It was more fun than I’ve ever had driving before. It’s like driving a go kart on the street. The main thing that kept me from it was that I needed a daily, and it didn’t fit those needs. Super or turbo charging didn’t even occur to me while driving; I was enjoying the stock engine too much.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Chariotoflove 07/12/2017 at 11:49

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Yes I’m a big fan of green + leather for Miata’s, but then i also found this, white + leather:

awmaster10 > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 11:52

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Get that one. THAT ONE. Green NC with tan interior. GET IT.

Chariotoflove > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:00

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I wouldn’t kick that out of my garage either.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > awmaster10 07/12/2017 at 12:00

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I dunnooo I’m beginning to develop feelings for this too:

awmaster10 > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:01

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I really like that too. A tan soft top done right is much more interesting than black.

Its a shame the hard top doesnt come in that green. The dark blue hardtops are a close second for me though.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:02

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I would buy a Miata for the fun of a Miata if I fit in them. The NB I could barely drive with my shoes off and the parcel tray divider removed to allow the seat back further. The NA is just some reason less awesome to me and the NC looks sad. Though the NC I fit ok in and I have no data on fitting in the NA or ND.

But the SLKs I fit great in and love driving my mother’s 320.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > awmaster10 07/12/2017 at 12:04

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That blue hard top does look nice. But I don’t think I want anything other than something with a brown leather interior, haha.

awmaster10 > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:06

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Right there with you. Tan interior (darker tan, peanut buttery is even better) or nothing.

NojustNo > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:29

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I’ve wanted a Miata for a long time. I check them out at the Seattle auto show every year. but even after 4(?) generations it seems they haven’t gotten one inch more legroom. I’m only 6'3" but my knees are jammed under the wheel.

Khalbali > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:31

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Yeah it’s rear mounted and the turbo takes the place of the muffler basically although I think they have a muffler option for it. He scrapped a self contained oil supply so there are oil lines and then air piping obviously but it all seems to fit along the driveshaft pretty easily and he has a good rep on the forums and it’s slightly cheaper than the other big name turbo/super kits, including his own more popular special force turbo. Plus you can still use a header or midpipe you already have, and he does tuning with racerom and all that jazz.

t0ast > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:39

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Can’t speak much to NA/NB options, but for NCs...

In terms of cost-effectiveness, it’s hard to beat a turbo. There’s everything from $4-5k rear mounts good for 200-240 whp to the more traditional high-quality kits that weigh in around $5.5k and are good for 250 whp and beyond (depending on what the engine and the rest of the car can support).

That said, the pragmatist in me likes the formerly-Cosworth-now-Flyin’-Miata MP62 supercharger kit. It runs about $5.5k, is reportedly the most OEM-like in terms of behavior and reliability, and good for at least 225 whp with an uncorked exhaust ($1300ish). I think it just got it CARB-approved too.

I wouldn’t rule out 2.5L swaps either since they’re about as simple as it gets for this car. To give you an idea, there are at least 3 shops I know of banging these swaps out on a regular basis starting around $4k (for a low-mileage used engine), labor included. Power ranges from ~160 whp bone-stock to 270 whp built-out screamers (though I don’t even want to look up what the later might cost...). For a longer-term build project, I’d definitely make this swap a part of it. The cost could also potentially be amortized to some degree by purchasing an earlier model year NC with high miles since you wouldn’t have to worry about chasing the more-ready-for-forced-induction 2009+ cars (which have more robust engine internals).

Of course, none of this accounts for all of the other bits you might need to support these (clutch, radiator, etc.), and TBH, I’d still suggest doing some suspension work first, because the OEM hardware leaves a lot to be desired.

Decay buys too many beaters > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:39

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I was right there with you never really saw myself as an owner, but when I heard about one abandoned in the woods for pennies I decided to make the leap. After fighting with getting it running for a while I can say it is one of the most pure driving experiences you can get into on four wheels (I’m a motorcyclist, so need to issue that disclaimer). Since getting mine I’ve had a bunch of friends drive it and they usually end up buying one in similar condition within a week or so (not kidding, 4 of them now have done this. None were particularly interested in miatas either)

As for Turbo vs SC... I’m team Turbo. Might be slower in real world usage, but it’s definitely a lot more fun. This is especially true in the case of centrifugal superchargers *barf*

t0ast > awmaster10 07/12/2017 at 12:51

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Seconded. That’s the color combo I wish I had.

syaieya > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 12:54

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I convinced my mom to get an NC a couple years ago after her bug was turning into rubble. She found dark blue hard top/ brown interior combo that shes been loving except that door dings hit it high since its so low and the clear coat on the roof isnt holding well.

I doubt shes tried buffing it but the little aethetics definately bug her

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Textured Soy Protein 07/12/2017 at 13:09

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NAs are kinda floppy and slow, NCs are fat and ugly, and so the NBs are just right. The proper balance amongst them all. Just enough refinement over the NA without all the extra weight and modern car “amenities” of the NC. Although the ND changes things, that is the best of all worlds! Ive seen C-street ND Miatas running faster raw times than STR S2ks at autocross.

Textured Soy Protein > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 07/12/2017 at 13:14

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I would be all about the ND if there was just one more friggin notch of recline on the seats. The recline only goes back as far as the seat will recline when you have it slid all the way back to the bulkhead. Even if you move it forward to get some clearance with the bulkhead, it won’t recline any further. Give me another notch, Mazda!

Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 13:19

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Oo. Miata topic. My favorites.

I’ve never driven a supercharged or turbocharged car, but it sounds like the behavior of a supercharger building to power like an NA motor would be more fun.

But then I think about how much I love my 4500rpm shove that I get when the timing bumps up, which a turbo would compliment.

Can’t choose. I’m sure my NB2 would violently explode if I tried to put any power through it anyways.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 13:20

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I mean I havent driven an MR2. I would have to imagine its right in there though. While the other cars definitely were faster, nicer, and turn better stock vs stock, the fact remained that I had just as much fun in all of them. I’m likely biased anyways considering owning my Miata and driving the shit out of it.

But the major comparison factor was steering communication and throttle response. It just made all of these cars feel so alive. Its funny because people say “miatas are slow” but really a ton of much more powerful cars feel slow in comparison. Its just because of the way its geared and the instant pedal to throttle body response. As long as I dont start on a hill, it always feels quick.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Textured Soy Protein 07/12/2017 at 13:23

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Why would you want it reclined?? I prefer my seats as upright as possible always. Then my head actually rests against the head rest as designed and I can control the steering wheel. No need for gangsta leaning in any car, especially a Miata. My opinion is irrelevant because I plan to daily drive an aluminum racing seat soon lol.

Textured Soy Protein > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 07/12/2017 at 13:36

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In spite of the name, headrests aren’t meant for you to rest your head on them while driving. A more accurate name would be head backstops, to prevent whiplash in crashes.

I don’t need the seat reclined a lot, I only need one more notch. My upper back is really big from lifting so to get my seat in the right position I use a perhaps slightly above-average amount of recline. But I’m very much out of gangsta lean territory. The ND seat even at its most reclined has me sitting too upright to be comfortable.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Textured Soy Protein 07/12/2017 at 13:51

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Well yeah but the less your head travels the less of a concussion and/or whiplash you will have. So if the head rest starts out 2 feet away, thats another 2 feet of acceleration time. The only issue with grandma seating position is the bottom of the seat. I need more legroom than that but that nice and upright part is perfect. I hear you though, different people are different. Its nice to have the option to do what you want. Anyone else who drives my Miata will ALWAYS lean the seat back more just because its different than how they would ever sit.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > NojustNo 07/12/2017 at 15:07

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ORLY? I’m 6'1", would you say that would be uncomfortable too? I’ll probably just have to sit in one.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Khalbali 07/12/2017 at 15:09

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Interesting stuff, I read a few posts on a message board he posted it on. I’d be very curious how it compares to a traditionally mounted turbo as far as lag goes.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > t0ast 07/12/2017 at 15:12

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So the stock manual is up to handling the power fairly decently, of the 2.5L? Definitely an interesting option, especially if one could find an otherwise good Miata with a grenaded engine.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Decay buys too many beaters 07/12/2017 at 15:14

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Sounds like they sell themselves once you get a drive in them, haha.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] 07/12/2017 at 15:15

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Yeah, that’s always a concern. I’ll be curious what the longevity of the MCM Miata’s will be. From the looks of it they are fairly mild on the boost.

Decay buys too many beaters > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 15:16

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They really do, and NAs will never be cheaper than they are right now. Bottom was a few years ago and they have been slowly appreciating since, but it is still a fantastic value for what you get.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 07/12/2017 at 15:17

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It sounds like the only thing stopping me from saying “shut up here’s my money” is a test drive.

t0ast > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 15:49

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Easily, assuming the clutch gets upgraded as appropriate. The 5 speed is the weaker of the two options, but neither are particularly fragile. General consensus seems to be that you’d not have to worry about the 6 speed until around 350 whp or so. There’s also a vendor who has been tracking a supercharged NC with the 5 speed transmission without issue for a while, so I’d imagine it to be fine for relatively mild builds as well.

Only caveat to be aware of with the 6 speed is that its gearing is EXTREMELY short for the pre-2009 cars (like 2nd gear topping out around 55 mph short).

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Decay buys too many beaters 07/12/2017 at 15:53

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Yeah, I haven’t really figured out if I want one yet and if so what my budget would be. I think budget would largely determine whether I go NA, NB(2) or NC.

StudyStudyStudy > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 17:49

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They are pretty bottomed out price wise, although good ones are starting to come up a bit in value. You can buy one, throw some basic maintenance at it, and most likely recoup by the time you sell it on, especially if it is of a more desirable spec (1.8L, LSD, etc etc).

Some of my favorite memories are in a miata, great way to get into a convertible, not much like a million miles of open sky. The engine is peppy enough, but also underpowered enough that you can really drive the car and still not be in felony territory. Friend and I both have light weight turbocharged cars pushing 300+hp, and it really is apparent you run out of asphalt real fast when you start pushing it. The miata on the other hand you can just make your commute a little race course without attracting too much attention.

Khalbali > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 18:28

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It seems ok from what I’ve read it’s small so that helps but supposedly it spools around 1800rpm or so, sounds badass too with it behind you.

MM54 > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 21:34

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I actually never driven or even ridden in a Miata

*ducks*

I have spent some time in a 944, and own a FB RX7 which is awesome, so if it’s some sort of ground between there, they’re probably pretty good.

NojustNo > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/12/2017 at 23:53

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It’s possible I just have freakishly long legs but yah try before you buy.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > StudyStudyStudy 07/13/2017 at 09:07

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Would you say the above is true, value-wise for NA through NC Miata’s?

StudyStudyStudy > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/13/2017 at 13:28

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NC’s are kind of in a different category. Price wise they are still up there, whether that means you will be rewarded for putting in a bit more is to be seen, I feel like those shopping for that era of car and price range would look more towards the better in every way S2000. Weight wise the NC’s kind of ballooned up about 0.2 tons as compared to the earliest models. They also make more power if I’m not mistaken, but adding power is not too difficult and is fairly ubiquitous for these cars, getting lightness back can be quite a challenge.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > StudyStudyStudy 07/13/2017 at 15:29

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Hmm, all good points!